I remember seeing 23 in the mature section A stallion class at Tulsa one year, surely not to be repeated nowadays. The year Sun God won the get of sire at the National in the section A division, ( he was leased by Coleman Cowan at the time and C C Silver Lady was in this group of babies) the entire ring was FULL of lines of three animals sired by the same stud. Nowadays the lion's share of the market for Welsh surely has shifted to; B, C, D, and half-welsh.

Back in those days our section A ponies were PERFORMANCE animals and could compete with everything from Thoroughbreds to Quarter Horses and everything in between. Kids were TOUGH and could jump 49" ponies over about anything. My own section A ponies were shown regularly in junior jumper and limit hunter. We also exhibited in cross-country and the very first eventing in Texas, over BIG fences that did not knock down! I loved Mountain ponies and still do, and if I was ever going to breed ponies again, it would be A's. They are where it's at! In the breeding of section B, and C, the great old breeders from Wales knew you 'don't get too far from the well', and they always kept some typy A blood in their ponies.

Unfortunately there is not a huge demand for the A ponies any more, and instead of the terrific performance animals they used to be, many are now frog faced, fat necked, long backed, lead and feed ponies, or are lead line ponies for a tiny kids. Really too bad and very far removed from what I knew them to be. Luckily there are still some of the original type A ponies around.

The Sec A (the heart and soul of all that which is Welsh), nor any other pure bred Welsh, needs the partbreds . The partbreds need the REAL thing to give them creditability and merit. The reason for the breeding of partbreds is an attempt to make improvements by breeding to a better animal. There is NOT one thing a pure Welsh can not do that it needs the part bred ponies to promote it or give it credibility, nor does the purebred rely on the breeding of partbreds to survive in any manner. The purebred Welsh fills every need as it already is. Partbreds are NOT A BREED, they are there as a product of fads. So... ask yourselves… what has the BREED to gain from recording lesser and lesser partbreds? What are the goals of breeders of non purebreds... to emulate in a pony what they like in horse breeds used for their favorite performances, NOT to produce a better pony.

Why have we the (TIC) "movement" for these lesser bred animals? Lets look at the strongest proponents of the part bred animals. Many have only half stock to breed and knew the rules long before they got into the position of not having any purebreds. But, rather than upgrade their stock,  just change the rules, add a registry. It is the same as was done when geldings weren’t able to get a supreme championship as that title only went to breeding stock, stallions and mares, so make a gelding supreme section. It is just succumbing to crybaby mentality "I can’t have what I want, so change it so I can."

Just what will the purebred Welsh have to gain from the promotion, or any other purpose, of partbreds in our Society…. WHICH IS ESTABLISHED ONLY for PURE bred Welsh. Take a lesson from the UK.... the WPCS records their parts BUT those PARTBREDS have their OWN society to promote THEMSELVES. Our society needs to take on the mentality of the Australian PM ... rules are rules and thats the way it is period.

OK, here's a dissenting opinion to give us some balance...

I have always believed the Half-Welsh registry was merely a way to recognize the Welsh influence in successful performance ponies. I can easily see the influence of grand-sires and grand-dams in their offspring. I think recognizing the Welsh influence to two generations back can only help people in general to appreciate the wonderful qualities of Welsh ponies.

I do not consider the half-Welsh a "breed". I do believe recognizing the achievements of ponies of Welsh heritage does promote the breed, even if the ponies themselves are not purebred.

The ponies will be bred whether or not they are registered with the WPCSA. I think the Welsh should get the credit for their influence.

I agree with Margaret, but would attempt to take this Part-bred thing one step further........

Nothing irks me more than folks trying to breed a "part-bred" to be a WELSH look-alike. THIS IS NOT A Part-bred in my books. If you want a Welsh pony, then breed or buy a "Purebred"!

A part-bred should be bred with the intention of generating the "best" from both animals that are crossed. "An Enhancement". It should be "better than the Welsh alone" would have been. For this reason, a part-bred should have Welsh characteristics, but should NOT be a Welsh look-alike. In fact in my books, a part-bred that is an un-registerable purebred, would be marked down under this scheme.

Part-breds are important to the Welsh breeder. For one, it proves the point that alot of breeders like to brag that "Welsh" improves almost any breed it is crossed with.For two, it creates an additional market that encourages those with stallions to use them. For three, it gives the Welsh the opportunity to prove its worth against other breeds that have amalgamated various breedings to improve the "Sport Pony". Welsh Part-bred should be able to hold their own, if we help them.

Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 8:13 AM

In theory I agree, however, when the Welsh market is now, and has been for a long time, the hunter pony market, and MANY breeders are only breeding for the type Welsh that will fill that market, which is the "thorobredy" type both in the A's and B's, the "Welsh look" is fast disappearing in the purebreds. So how do you propose Judges are to know what to look for in a partbred? If our purebred Judges would only be true to the Welsh standard in purebred classes, it would make it easier to judge half-Welsh and partbreds. Judges need explicit direction on what is acceptable in the PUREBRED classes. Then they will know that those half and partbred ponies are being crossed to fill a purpose and could judge those ponies on their merits to fill that or those purposes; but when the purebred judges are ignoring the Welsh look or standard, then the breeders have to breed the purebreds for the same purpose the judges are judging for. This merging of PURPOSE and STANDARD ruins the ability to discern how the Welsh are improving the half and partbreds.

The Assoc. is already maintaining half-welsh registered ponies if the owners choose to process the paperwork. I feel this is enough. Any less of a percentage and the ponies will loose the Welsh type and could look like any other breed. My personal example.....I have a half Welsh Sect. B 3yo gelding out of a QH mare that has always thrown ponies BUT this guy is going to be 15.2H and looks nothing like a Welsh or half Welsh pony! Do members want a registry where the "ponies" could look like TBs, QHs, Arabs, Paints, etc., I sure hope not!! Many states like my home state, Virginia, are starting to maintain a state pony association so the bloodlines/pedigrees are recording and maintained anyway. Unless members are going to show at the Welsh shows what advantage is there to processing the half-Welsh or part-Welsh paperwork when states are maintaining breeder info?? As for the excessive white rule......it should be reinstated. Welsh ponies are not paint ponies. If not, STRICT DNA testing should be continued and VERIFIED on these ponies with excessive white. Was the rule changed just to accomidate a few breeders?? Personally I find it hard to believe that "somewhere" there are pure Welsh bloodlines carrying the Tobiano color pattern gene. Odd that it all of a sudden appears on one farm that is now standing a tobiano Paint stallion. If breeders want Paint ponies then leave the Welsh bloodlines out of it. I am still upset that there are Sect. B ponies registered and being sold as such when they are really Sect. A type and carry 3/4 Sect. A blood but just happen to grow over 12.2 H. Now breeders are wanting to make the ponies into Paints!! Since I am in the business of breeding, selling, training, etc. I prefer to remain anonymous....hard enough to make a living when people like you. Seems that honesty and integrity have little to do anymore with being successful.

In the beginning, I mean way back, both here and in Wales, these associations were begin by BREEDERS of PUREBRED Welsh Ponies, for PUREBRED Welsh Ponies and to further that BREED in every way and to maintain it's PURITY. THAT is the reason for the registry in the first place, and that is the mission statement, no more mutable than the breed standard. Yes, I now feel the registration of half Welsh by the WPCSA was a big mistake, as was changing the way A and B ponies are registered, as was so much emphasis put on heads in A ponies which them became distorted into frog faces with gold fish eyes and these animals could neither see or breath properly, as was the conversion of a very strong and useful all purpose B pony into a show ring cutie with a pea brain, as was Cobs who now are so light and fine and nutty --- what can those do? And now---pinto and appaloosas, and 1/4 Welsh are to be carried in this registry too, WHERE for heaven's sake will it all stop?

The Welsh registry was NEVER NEVER NEVER supposed to be INCLUSIVE to anyone and everyone who had some sort of wild idea about where to take it, but LIMITED to purebred animals of 100% Welsh blood, that is what a BREED is. Somewhere along the way everyone forgot that fact. Now of major concern is; money, producing great numbers of get from a single stud, money, being sure every market is covered with an animal of 'some' Welsh blood, money, accommodating every breeder of whatever persuasion who wants to twist 'Welsh' and breed for their own little piece of the market, money, being sure to stay up with the current show ring and breeding fads, money, well you see my point, even if you don't agree.

Maybe it was my visit to this year's AGM and all the "Excessive White" STUFF...but my view of all BREED REGISTRIES has forever been tainted.

With all the research that I did into our infamous breed and the reading about "real doing Welsh", I have to disagree with this altruistic perspective. I disagree that the original registry was started to "protect" the breed. I believe that the original registry was started for $$ money.

There was no benefit to the breed in registering specific animals at that time. In fact many people didn't have the $$ money required to even register their purebred animals at that time..... BUT there was significant benefit to those who started the registry. Do you think that their animals...regardless of quality were entered in the first stud books?? I'm sure that they ensured their animals qualified for that first registry. To follow this up, they then held the balance of power over all the others who sought membership afterwards. They also were allowed to control the animals & stallions that were allowed to graze on Crown lands. Definitely power and $$money as I recall.

Yes...I'm cynical!! A good pony of Welsh type is still a good pony.

In all my research I could not find anything that outlined the BENEFIT of a breed association or a purebred registry. Does it really help or hurt a breed?? To date, I cannot say that I have found any proof that our Registry has at all "helped" our breed. As Cherry states, we have bred tiny headed, frog-eyed ponies; ponies with bone so light their forebears would have looked like draft animals beside them. What have we done that was positive to protect and preserve this hardy pony breed??

If our Registry hasn't benefited the breeding of "purebred" animals, then what exactly has it done? OR Was it always to be about $$ Money?? I think personally, that it "was", "is" and likely always "will be" about $$Money.

A few breeders have always been in it, to benefit the breed. I'm sure those idealists...many of them with thoughts exactly like ours ...Cherry included...will always exist for the "Right" reasons ......to help the breed. To breed excellent quality animals and to protect our Welsh. For us, those who care about what we are breeding, having 1/2 Welsh registered, should create a benefit and an additional market. After all, even we need $$ to continue our breeding programs, in our never ending search for the "perfect pony".

If "these" ponies are allowed to show, will they be accepted in Canada and other Welsh registries?